“I Feel More FREE in Prison Than I Ever Did Outside.” | God Behind Bars Podcast

And I thought I could go out and drink again, resulted in an altercation that ended a man's life. Yeah, you need to put your radio down. There's officers outside who want to talk to you, and I got to call my family from the county jail before they extradited me from Kansas to Missouri and tell them I'm not coming home. I felt like a thousand bricks were lifted off my shoulders. Hey, I'm Jake Bodine. Welcome back to another episode of The Guy Behind Bars podcast and kind of in a special environment here today, we're still at Jefferson City Correctional Center and I've got a good buddy of mine, Michael Wines, that is not only a guest on this podcast, but he's one of the main leaders in this institution of just getting these guys bought into their faith and witnessing to the other individuals that are sharing in this community and we get to sit in your house, bro. This is a first for me. This is this is pretty exciting, interesting man. Why don't you just, we'll start there. Why don't you give us a tour and what's going on in itself? Well, this is, this is a first for me as well. So welcome. I share it with another individual and he's a good buddy of mine named William, but we got the bunk as every cell typically does, but this is the library, the theological library with some common terries and some systematic theologies and you guys are getting in deep. Do you have, now do you have family that sends that to you or how do you get access to all that? I'm going to say family helps out a lot, but we do have its Christian book distributors we're able to order from. So I had the opportunity to graduate from Hannibal Gringe University as a Bible college here. So that inspired a lot of that as well. Now see that you guys got the essentials, the peanut butter, more peanut butter than

I've ever seen in my life. My silly is a brownie and fudge baking animal. Yeah. And he, he's mastered the craft. So these are all the supplies he needs to make him every day. It's amazing. TV set up lockers that typically go into the bunk. We just set them up there for more storage. And what's Saturday's like in here, college football on the TV? Is that what we got or what? Saturdays, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a little bit of football. Yeah. A little football, but it's most of the time organized for workouts and stuff like that. So typically the cell is getting ready because he's our, he's our physical trainer on the camp. Yeah. Yeah. And you've got a room with him. And I get to, he holds you, he holds you accountable to everything. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I might have to think of doing something like that. There's a lot of planning that happens in here. That's good man. Well, hang on. Oh yeah. Go ahead.

This is kind of a new addition for real. It's a cardboard. It's amazing what you can do with cardboard, but the clothes hanging shelf. Now, what do you, what do you install it up there on the roof with? I will say wood glue. Okay. Yeah. Found it. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I'm, I'm interested in getting to know you. And thank you for letting us crash your house for, for the day, but why don't you just start with just who you are, kind of where you came from? Maybe you're kind of what childhood was like and we'll get all the way up to the point of incarceration and then just keep going from there. Absolutely. Oh, Micah, like I just myself earlier, but my childhood was a good one. I came from two deaf parents, hearing impaired parents. So we kind of had deaf culture and also hearing culture and sports or everything. Other siblings are just you. I have my brother Jonah, my sister Sarah, my sister Malia. Okay. So. And they're all the part of the hearing culture. We're all hearing. Yeah. It was birth issues that actually caused our parents hearing impairment. Wow. Yeah. So they speak and are understandable, but they wear hearing aids.

And without them, you can't, they can't hear anything. Yeah. But sports was everything. My dad was a Kansas Jayhawks fanatic. So it was baseball, soccer, anything we were willing to be put into basketball. Yeah. What sport, what sport did you lean into? I was soccer and wrestling. Okay. Soccer first. Yeah. It was a sport that not many people do, but it's probably one of the best sports on planet Earth. I enjoy it. Yeah. I enjoy it. So keep going. I'm sorry. I'm keep cutting off, but childhood was good. Kind of what happened. Be honest, there's a couple of things that might have, you know, kind of with my father, my father and I were, we were close, very close, especially through the sports. becoming a little more disobedient, but as far as school and stuff like that was concerned, I was still behaving, putting on the front, and then kind of a knucklehead around my friends and sometimes in the house. But my dad and I started buttonheads a little bit. But there was some things that my dad struggled with that I didn't necessarily agree with.

And I didn't know the whole story when he actually stepped out on my mother and they're together still to this day. She forgave him, but he stepped out and I was aware of it. And I started growing a huge resentment towards my father and just didn't trust him. And so a lot of things that he would ask of me at that point moving on, I'm not hearing what you have to say. And that kind of spilled over into my mother as well. But school always came easy, sports was easy. And then when things started to kind of seem to become more challenging, I needed to step up a little bit. I think fear really started to control my life. Just trusting in the family unit, I was fearful of my own ability at that point. And I went to what I thought was easier. And I was just friends who drank and did drugs. - And what, sorry to cut you off. What do you mean by fearful of your own ability? - I had a lot of doubt in myself. Like I said before, soccer, wrestling, all that stuff came easy and you get praise, bajabo done, you know. And then school. And then the sports kind of started falling off because of my drug abuse and stuff like that. I say I started using drugs at about 14.

And then 15, 16 is where my drinking really kind of took off. And then life and period came intimidating. And I was gonna go back to school. It was always tomorrow's plan. You know, I'm serving tables at a Buffalo Wild Wings or an all garden, right? Knowing I should be doing something different. I hung out with a lot of individuals who had something going on in life. They were either in college or they were doing something more than what I was. So I blend in and then just talk about what I was gonna do with my future, but real no plan because I was the guy at the party blacking out. Doing some of the dumber things, getting in the most trouble. - Yeah. - So. - And what was the moment that basically your entire life changed and you ended up here? - This was, I got sober in 2012 and I walked into a treatment center and knowing that we were about to have our first child. And I have two kids, Malachi and Ezra, two boys. And the mother of my children and I, at that time I was bartending in Kansas City. So money in my mind was great, but this is not the lifestyle I can lead to raise my son. So I walked into this treatment center for some help

and that was the first time that I actually recognized God's presence. - And what do you mean by that? How did that come about? - I was sitting in the chapel and this lady came in and she ministered to us and then she played a song called Let Go and Let God. And I'm already feeling like I'm tired, right? And I've got all this weight of family responsibilities. I need to find a good job. I need to support my family on my shoulders. And being raised, knowing who, knowing of Jesus 'cause the family, my family's always gone to church. I cried out. And in the midst of that song, my eyes were closed and I'm hearing this, you know, as soon as I stop worrying, worrying about how the story ends, I let go and I let God and I let God have His way. And then they said something like, and that's when things start happening or something like that. But the lyrics just, it hit me in my heart in that moment and I felt this presence and I cried. And unfortunately, two years after that, I had relapsed. I went, Malachi, our oldest was doing well, the family unit was doing well, work was well. And then I thought I could go out and drink again for fun. And that spiraled me into probably about an eight month relapse on methamphetamine, from alcohol to methamphetamine. I don't even know how the jump happened, but it did. And resulted in an altercation that ended a man's life.

And I, fear kicked in again. I cried out to God. I went back home, got life together. What's going on in your in your mind there because obviously you're like you said The situation it drove you to change your life. You're changing your life. Everything is going well. I Like to take these these mo moments and there's really two right roads right in people's faith. It's like Am I shakeable or am I shapeable and so? Which road were you feeling in that moment? I just said knowing the events that took place. There's a large investigation happening and it was a Question in mind of are they coming to get you or is this thing just gonna go away? And then wall in that moment Connecting with Christ you have this burden on your heart knowing that God who's it got a justice is not gonna let you get away with what you did and there was a family on the other end who was hurting and I was a supervisor at UPS at this time and my securities manager came up to me and said Mike Yeah, you need to put your radio down. There's officers outside. We want to talk to you. I Knew in that moment and it felt like a thousand bricks were lifted off my shoulders It was Valentine's Day night was looking forward to going home to be with the mother of my children in my son's birthday The very next day on the 15th And I got to call my family from the county jail before they extradited me from Kansas to Missouri and tell them I'm not coming home But looking back at that moment when I heard that the officers were there The freedom that I felt because that two years of walking around was heavy man It was heavy because your heart wants to remain at home your heart wants to Just stay free But then the closer I got with God in that moment. I knew that wasn't gonna be the case And so they show up and what's going through your head obviously you said you experience freedom all of that But you're also watching your entire life flash before your eyes I'm sure you're thinking about your children and at that point in time you're thinking about your spouse or the mother of your children What are the things that are running through your head as you go into?

County lock-up I Ran to God because I I just put my head up and I told him and I'm gonna keep my head up This is yours and I remember saying that in my mind walking into Wyandotte County Jail on the Kansas side and But everything I was going on my mind from there was it was a pool back and forth some days It was all about the law and what they have and now thinking about freedom and then the other days It was diving in my word talking to my father who him and I have reconnected in such a huge way Praise God, but talking to him about Christ and other family members. They were kind of riding this out with me And our arity of your family before this conversation are they believers or yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, my father One of the things that I was I didn't know till later when my dad Cheated on my mom That when it happened the first person he called immediately was my uncle My uncle told me he needed to be honest with my mom So he did just that I didn't know any of those details. I just know what happened and it wasn't talked about so he went and talked to my mom and then went directly to the elders of the church and Correction took place and when I got that news for my mom in this visitation room Here at J triple C when she told me that when I finally asked the question for Whether I wanted to know more just for forgiveness purposes In that moment I was able to forgive my dad. I was proud of him that moment for being honest about it. Yeah How in that relationship, that's obviously like you said it's strengthened since coming to prison. Yeah And how you how have you both been intentional in that I? Man through my college experience here. He's someone. He's a smart guy He's a really smart guy and I go to him for help for wisdom and Spiritual stuff too, so he helped helped me through my college experience while incarcerated But then you know in different sermons. I've gotten to write and talks. I'll practice them on the phone and Praise God for hearing aid can compatible cell phones, but we've gotten to communicate that way and He's encouraged me and It's just grown us closer. I talked to him last night and he told me that Because I told him that I can't I do have a heart's desire as you guys have been here for me and I want you guys to be proud of me out there and but you just told me just everything that you see me going through and here from the moment my

incarceration on even before he's he's never been more proud of me so i'm grateful for that yeah absolutely what about what about your boys obviously as a dad and especially sons like number one i guess the question would be is like how do you what how are you intentional to stay a presence in their life uh two is like what would you want them to know who their dad is today because obviously i get to meet this version of you um and proud of the things that you're doing in here and the things that you're doing to uh further yourself but uh from a father to a son like what are those things that you wish that they would know about who mica is their dad is today they're teenagers now so getting the answer the phone is is a task sometimes but um what i attempt to do with them is to own Jesus man i want him to know Christ and uh so how i love him on the phone trying to encourage him the best way that i can tell i'm proud of him for the things that they're doing and you know they got their challenges right now in my 13 year old especially but um just being in ear i've apologized said sorry and i've offered myself to be their form as much as i possibly can but and i think that's important as a man because obviously like sorry those words coming out of our mouth sometimes is the hardest thing to say yeah all of our pride all of our ego wants to be like man sorry like and then we start to check off all the boxes to why that's not needed but especially in your boy's lives or your daughter's lives uh for those of you that have daughters on the outside if you have kids like just starting with i'm sorry i'm sorry for missing out on the moments that uh i should have been there for i'm sorry for the the void in the emptiness that may be in your heart uh whatever it is even if it's like i didn't do anything directly to them they are being affected by these situations and starting with i'm sorry and being that listening ear i think is is the gateway to open it up their heart and uh to also show them that like we're not too proud or too big uh to say i'm sorry and that's ultimately the freedom that uh it gives us in our heart because like you said i had to carry that i had to carry the resentment i had to carry the guilt i had to carry the shame of all the things that i had done for two years it was what you what you say a thousand bricks sitting on your shoulders and those little things that even though we haven't let go of in our heart or said sorry for that we still carry we might even subconsciously not know it's there anymore like our kids are feeling that and to show them how much we love them by just saying hey i'm sorry even when you don't feel like you should i love that bro i uh i try to you can't speak courage you can speak life into people when you can pray over them but i don't want them to experience fear like i did that held me back

from everything that i could have done out there so i i speak that every time i'm on the phone with them i remind them whether they believe it right now or not yeah i didn't give them a spirit of fear so you have in you something that has the capability of being a great success one but by way of serving people loving people find who you are in jesus yeah and um that's what's killed fear in my life and given me courage so i try to give them that i love that and if you're listening right now in prison and you're wondering man how do i have a relationship with my kids like this is a master class uh of what you can do i think often uh and i'm sure that you see it and have witnessed it yourself but like uh get in our families to try to understand what's happening in here right and they're trying to get us to understand what's happening out there and often we're like two ships in the night just passing each other uh because that's where the the cornerstone of all of our conversation is is my needs versus your needs and like what i heard and uh in what you described on the phone with your kids it's like oh man i just open up my heart to them and i try to meet them where they're at and i'm not here to burden them with the things that i'm dealing with on a daily basis but help them carry theirs and you're able to do that from this prison what would you say is to somebody who is a dad uh and maybe has not Number one, how would you do that? But two is what would you encourage them going forward on how to have a deep relationship with their children? - I would begin with prayer. The heart needs to be in the right spot for to be consistent. So I think that's what they need to see. They saw inconsistency with us by coming here. So when we do reach out, when we do connect with them, we have to stay consistent with it. And on their terms, on their terms, I can't force nothing in Malachi's life. I can't force the mother of my children to do anything. I'm at their mercy at this point. So whatever they offer me, I cherish it. But then whatever they're willing to give, man,

I try to make the most of it. But consistency is key. I think a lot of times they're expecting us to fall off again at some point or worried or fearful that we're going to fall off again at some point. - Yeah, no, that's so good. Well, as of today, what's Micah's hopes and dreams? Like, what do you see for your future? Like, while one, you're in this place and then obviously, prayerfully, once you get your physical freedom? - Now is just, it's working on my ability to love people, my growth in Christ and leadership and what that looks like, but mainly through discipleship, evangelism and discipleship. And I know that when I step out, jails, rehabs, institutions, or something that I would want to frequent to give the gospel and testimony of guys who struggled through some of the same things I have. And so they don't have to end up in a place like this. And if I get to come back to prison and talk to people, praise God, but it's going to be definitely directed towards whatever Jesus is telling me to do, in power of the Spirit. I love that. And for the people that are sitting on the fence right now, like, what would you say to that individual,

those that are like, maybe this is the third or fourth time they've seen this podcast, or maybe they've watched 50 sermons in the last 24 hours 'cause God's stirring something in their heart, but they're still on this fence with the whole idea of Jesus and man, can it really, can it really save me? Can it really change my past? Can it really change my future? What would you say to those people, why Jesus? I would say first and foremost, you look around at everything in creation. It screams of a God. The sun, the moon, the stars, the grass, the birds, the bees, everything says something made me. And that God is Christ. That is Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, all at work. And then you made in the image of God. All these questions start to get answered when we tune into the source. You cry out to him, Lord, I don't know, help me. I don't know who you are. I'm not quite certain of this. I'm asking you to just show me. But then do your part, get in his word, read the gospels, get to know who Jesus is and the purpose of his coming because I promise if I was to not know him and I take my last breath tonight, I will awaken to something far more worse than this prison. That's an eternal judgment that is promised in his word. But he extends this love gift that says,

here's my son, he died on your behalf, the sins that you committed and he's taking that. It's propitiation for us in that payment that satisfies as Joby Martin says on piano all the time, that payment that satisfies. And he took the wrath of the God. He took the wrath of the Father for us. So today I can stand confident and assured that when I do close my eyes, I will awaken to him 'cause this life is short, is short. - Well, what if somebody wants to have what you have? Like, how do they receive that? Share the gospel with these guys right now. - Fellows ladies, I don't know if it's something that, I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna say this, you're a sinner. We all fall short of the glory of God. And the sins that have brought you to prison, is you watch this panda, the sin that has made you, you know, steal from your family, from your friends, from whoever, that sin that leaves you in your bunk, feeling shame and guilt. There's a penalty for it and we do die. But then there's a second death that awaits us and God wants to deliver you from that death. God, as scripture says, so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son. And once I clicked that in my mind that there's nothing that I can do to earn that salvation, that he gave a free gift and said, I want you to spend eternal life with me.

I want you to be in relationship with me. Just confess my name and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord. the more I sought the more presence of the spirit the more leading of the spirit that I heard and This has been the outcome I'm in prison and I feel more free more fearless Inside than I ever did on the outside and that's what the power of God can do for you It's seek first the kingdom about in his righteousness and all this earthly stuff that we do in will desire He's gonna add all that but all those things are gonna become a lot more meaningless When we start focusing on him. I promise you cry out to him. He'll be there Appreciate it man. Yeah, it's that simple. It starts with a yes. It starts with the confession of Jesus Being your Lord and Savior and believing that whole heart heartedly and that you're making him the Lord of your life And he's not asking for anything else from you and if anyone else tells you that he is I promise you he is not all he wants is your heart and he wants you to acknowledge that he is Lord And then he will begin to transform you from the inside out brother. It was so good Just to have this conversation with you Like I said, I had heard a ton about you even before We got to sit down today and just proud of you proud of the man you are proud of the man that you've become and I believe that God hasn't anointing on your life and That your purpose Is gonna riddle not just here in this facility, but literally around the world and I don't know what that looks like for you But I believe that that spirit lives on you and so proud. Thank you proud to know you. Appreciate it. Yeah, you too